In this video, Ben interviews Ben Goertzel about the inevitability of AGI and the need for decentralized networks to deploy AI in an open, democratic way. Decentralized AI will play a substantial economic role in the coming years… and there are no signs of stopping!
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People are going to see that slowing Down and stopping AI isn't actually What's going to happen I mean that There's going to be a certain period of Time where people are like whoa this is Going too fast should we should we stop This then people will realize no wait a Minute that's not actually what the World is going to do we're not actually Going to stop this so many people are Staring at their phones too much for That we're not stopping the rollout of Mobile phones anyway so as an AI Researcher for a long time I mean I can Tell you that's not what's going to Happen like we're not going to stagnate Thank you Foreign Let's talk about um what you're doing With uh Singularity and and the problem Between Ai and crypto obviously agix has Had an unbelievable run uh we bought in On a dip a few weeks ago maybe about two Months ago right off the rip you know we Were back uh you know up 100 on it so What has been I guess the biggest Takeaway for you uh looking at how agix Has done is this purely Trend hype Driven from a price speculation It ties in with these broader aspects Which is why I spent so much time Sounding off on them right I mean I Think that one of the messages we've Been preaching since 2017 when we
Launched Singularity net is Agi is Coming AI is taking over the world at Least in an economic sense but hopefully Not in a military sense right yeah AI is In the world as Mark Andreessen said Software is eating the world and we Don't want big Tech and big government To be eating the world right what we Want is decentralized demographic open Networks to be eating the world in Economic economic sense right and for That we need the right platforms for Deploying AI in a decentralized way open Source code isn't enough you need live Running AI systems that are running on Decentralized networks with no Central Owner or controller Singularity net Allows that and that story makes sense To a limited subset of the population in 2017. It makes sense to a lot larger Subs of The population now because more people Believe AGI is a clear and present thing And more people can see like oh wait a Minute We have gpt4 we don't know why it's Giving the answer does we don't know What the strengths and weaknesses are Okay it integrates both from alpha on The back end which answers are coming From well from alpha which answers are Coming from a neural net they don't need To tell us they published a research Paper on gbt4 that isn't really a
Research paper it doesn't really tell us What's happening inside inside it right So I think the mission and vision of Singularity net make a lot more sense to People now yeah and they make a lot more Sense to more people now and I think This underlies the rise in token price In s net in other AI blockchain projects I think it's not a pump and dump thing I Mean of course there's pump and dumpers Out there everywhere so yeah Everything in crypto is partly partly a Pump and pump thing right you can't get Around that but I think to an extent It's a rational increase in people's Assessment of the economic value of Decentralized AI right I mean people are Looking at where AI Tech is at they're Like okay AI Tech is more advanced than We knew it was four months ago seeing That AI Tech is more advanced than we Knew it was four months ago I mean it Would follow that AI Tech running on Blockchain networks is going to be more Advanced really soon and seeing all These concerns about what centralized Entities are doing with AI you know it's More and more plausible that Decentralized deployments of AI are Going to play substantial economic role Over the next couple years so I think People's confidence that Singularity net Can be a really big economic factor in The world people's confidence has been
Increased Yeah by check BT and other Such things in a very rational way of Course that's entangled with all sorts Of crazy cryptos price Dynamics and Imaginations But there's I mean I I think I think if You wanted to make an analogy of some Sort I mean suppose that say a new life Extension therapy was discovered Based On data sourced from blockchain that Works I mean then then you would see the Price of everything in the blockchain For medicine domain just go up Tremendously or in a different domain Like suppose that nanotechnology Advanced a lot and you add molecular Assemblers being lodged by some Manufacturing company so suddenly you Get a 3D printer that would print you Know computer chips or metal objects if If that Advance happened you would see a Bunch of token projects to tokenize Another technology and never get a high Market cap and it wouldn't be just High It would it would make sense because Whoa nanotech is going to be a big big Part of the account they're obviously The recent boost in price for AI related Tokens is largely driven by chat GP t a General enthusiasm for the AI sector Rather than specifically for stuff That's been rolled out on decentralized AI networks yeah it's totally rational Because you know large language model
Related stuff will be rolled out very Soon on on decentralized AI networks and There's also all sorts of issues about You know how you get the data to feed Into these language models Different verticals and decentralized Tokenomics models provide very valuable Solutions to sourcing data to feed AI Models so as an example of this there's A singular ecosystem project called Jam Galaxy we talked about a bit in our last Interview there's probably going to be a Token sale for a jam galaxy in the next Few months we're moving forward quickly There but I mean there you have a real Copyright issue right like the reason we Don't have large language models for Music similar to you know Dali stable Diffusion or chat GPT it's not that it's So much harder to do it for music right I mean you have papers like like music LM they came out of Google doing really Cool stuff with log language models on Music the reason we don't have mlms on Music out there is you know Spotify one Or I mean it's the industry structure The known as copyright on the music People listen to yeah so then you need a Decentralized way to allow musicians and Incentivize musicians to contribute Their music to feed the training of Large language models and other neural Nets trained on music then you can get Llms for music so it's a perfect
Opportunity for crypto to come in where You give musicians tokens for Contributing their their music there to A decentralized data Commons then use a Platform like singular unit to train Models on all that data people have put In and then money got from offering Those models feeds back in part to the Musicians who have contributed data in The form of rewards associated with the Tokens that they that they own right so I mean I mean I think music is one Example you tell the same story about Medical data which is the rejuve project Right which just launched token running On single internet rjv token but those Are two niches I happen to be playing in Biomedical data with rejuve and music With gem Galaxy but I mean you can go Through every political Market that There is right yeah every one of these Has a value for large language models Every one of these has a value for even Smarter AI than large language models And we can get by hooking the other Reasoning engines with large languages On Singularity net every one of these Verticals has a data problem and a need For a tokenomic model to to incentivize And reward people for contributing data So all this we've been preaching for Years I think people can say whoa this is getting real now they can see That that's been reflected in in the
Token price and will likely continue to Be although I'm not making any price Predictions or promoting anything as an Investment instrument but I mean you can See there's a logical aspect to people Giving increased assessment to the value Of AI related tokens Well I think something to think about Here is that you know when you were Talking about you know kind of the way It works with all the niches right Nanotechnology was a big Niche all of a Sudden now we would have nanotechnology Coins popping up left and right right so Some of this stuff it does get Get Hype Driven some of it's use case driven but What's so fascinating to me about AI is I think for the first time We're looking at a kind of technology That has been created no obviously you Know ai's been created but in a sense It's being discovered by the world right Now we have a technology that could be As revolutionary as the internet as Revolutionary as blockchain has popped Up now within the world of blockchain And to me that makes it very fascinating And it really makes me believe that uh You know we're potentially going to see These AI coins run for Considerably longer than I think we've Seen some of these other niches have Their Heyday I think we're not seeing an End to the AI run personally I mean of
Course things will come and go in waves And I mean there will be periods of Greater acceleration and slower Acceleration but I think you're just Going to continue to see acceleration in The AI field with some some ups and Downs in the third derivative of what They call Jerk in physics right because I mean I think we've got chat GPT now That bottom line is even if people slow Down developing large language models Like gpt5 well guess what that's not the Path to AGI anywhere what we're working On is using the current breed of large Language models together with logical Reasoning engines together with Evolutionary learning engines together With different sorts of AI to get Smarter and smarter systems and there's No petition asking us to slow that down And we're not about to slow it down Anyway because I don't think it's the Right thing to do so I mean I think You're going to see a series of more and More powerful AI systems come out year On Year from here on until a Technological singularity and this is Gonna be greatly reflected in the Economics of every sector as well as in Share prices and token prices across the AI industry and I mean I think people Are going to see that slowing down and Stopping AI isn't actually what's going To happen I mean that there's going to
Be a certain period of time where people Are going to like whoa this is going too Fast should we should we stop this then People will realize no wait a minute That's not actually what the world is Going to do we're not actually going to Stop this any more than we're people Grouse that people are starting up their Phones too much and many people are Staring at their phones too much for That we're not stopping the rollout of Mobile phones anyway so I think after People realize that we're not actually Stopping the Advent of AI then the Decentralization and democratization of AI Is going gonna start to seem like a No-brainer to more and more people and I Mean then you look at all the developers That big Tech has been laying off in the U.S just to appease Wall Street how many Of these developers are going to jump Into the blockchain space and the Decentralized AI space right so you're Going to see a lot of factors driving Growth in the sector I mean yeah it's Not like metaverse I mean I think Metaverse is also coming but the hype For metaverse was driven on promise Whereas the height for AI now is being Driven by professional systems that work They're right in front of you and Everyone can use them now the idea that These will grow into more and more and
More and more powerful systems that has An element of promise to it right like It naively it could happen we stagnated Gpt4 level which still is probably Enough to overtake a significant part of The economy yeah as an AI researcher for A long time I mean I can tell you that's Not what what's going to happen like We're not going to stagnate large Language models may stagnate but there's A lot of other stuff in the AI field That can be integrated together with Large language models to to yield even More exciting results I think one thing To think about here I've been thinking About a lot of these hype Cycles you Know we have we had the D5 hype cycle uh We had the metaverse hype cycle uh which I agree with you your explanation of Metaverse versus AI I think was Absolutely perfect obviously you know More about AI than anybody in the world I think so I think that's a beautiful Comparison because when you get inside Of a metaverse you've got to have the Metaverse be built out already and That's a big step to get from where We're at now to a fully built out Metaverse with AI everything is Happening in real time and so you're Actually seeing the utility you're Seeing it grow and I've been thinking Back on all these niches and I'm just Sitting here thinking like how cool
Would it be if AI becomes the niche that Actually brings the mainstream in and Instead of people investing in meme Coins they invest in AI coins I can see That narrative possibly happening Because a lot of people got burnt by Meme coins in the last Bull Run Obviously and AI is kind of making the Jump here between you know mainstream And uh the person that doesn't you know Know about crypto so definitely think It's gonna be fascinating to watch uh Ben awesome having you on the show today It was a great interview can't wait to Find out more uh or watch agix uh Through this board I want to have you Back on the show uh again yeah yeah this Is this is uh is fun stuff to talk about So I mean I think uh I mean overall so Our plan is to launch stuff that's way Smarter than chat GPT on Singularity net It's gonna take a little while but we Know how to do it we're working on it And I think once once we have the Smartest AI in the world incorporating Large language models among other things On our decentralized platform I mean Then then you're gonna see decentralized AI lift to a whole new level and the Final point I wanted to make is I think This will I mean the biggest thing is We're building human level and this Superhuman thinking machines and doing It democratically and doing it for the
Good of humanity but as a small side Effect on this path it's going to change The whole narrow different reality of The crypto world because crypto was now Thought it was mainly being about Finance and trading and winning and Losing money but when you have the World's smartest AI system running a Decentralized blockchain based Network The idea that crypto was really about Decentralized control of any sort of Computational processes will be very Obvious to everyone this should have a Big impact on people's attitude toward The crypto space and it will certainly Shift the regulatory dialogue though in A complex way because you'll see people Arguing for AI regulation also as the AI Gets smarter and smarter but so I think Yeah the next couple years are going to Be increasingly uh weird and exciting Ones in the niches that we've somehow Found ourselves playing in I know it's It's wild out there well Ben thank you So much for coming on the show we'll put Uh the links to where everybody can Follow you uh on socials and can learn More about agix and Singularity net uh Down Below in the description thank you So much for joining us today Ben Appreciate it cool thanks a lot all Right thanks Foreign
